1899 Los Angeles City Directory listing
the State Normal School at the
southwest corner of W. Fifth and S.
Grand Ave.
http://www.archive.org/stream/outwestland14archrich/outwestland14archrich_djvu.txt

This was in the document.

Eureka Stables
W. M. OSBORN, Prop.
Livery and Boarding
323 W. Fifth St.
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Quiz #262 Results
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The Normal School in context of its  
surroundings, looking west from the
corner of Hill and Fifth Streets,
down Fifth Street.
From the corner of Olive and Sixth
looking northwest over the Pacific Mutual
Building at a panorama of the
neighborhood surrounding the Normal
School.

N.B.  The building in the background in the picture was originally the California
State Normal School, later UCLA.  It is now the Los Angeles City Library.
                                                                                          Q. General
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Then I went to the address at google
maps. I went to street view and followed
the street back to the largest building in
the background and saw it was the
Biltmore Hotel.

Thank you for another great quiz.
                                 Gary Sterne
Out West
1901
www.archives.org
Eureka Stables
p n121
Answer to Quiz #262
June 27, 2010

1.  What city was this taken in?
2.  What street are the couple riding their bikes down?
3.  What is the building in the distant background behind the man on the bike?

If you want a
hint, click here.
Ad for bicycles and
carriages, p n225
Comments from Our Readers
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The California State Normal School was a
teaching college founded on May 2, 1862,
whose original campus later became both
the California State University and its San
Jose State University campus.

Although the California State Legislature
act founding the school referred to the
institution as the "Normal School of the
State of California", the institution was
commonly referred to as the Calfironia
State Normal School.  The 1870 Act that
moved the school to San Jose formalized
the California State Normal School name.

The school was created when the State of California took over a normal school that
educated San Francisco teachers in association with that city's high school system.
This school was generally known as either the San Francisco Normal School or Minns'
Evening Normal School. The second California State Normal School campus,
predecessor to UCLA, at its original downtown Los Angeles location. In 1871, the
school moved to Washington Square Park at Fourth and San Carlos Streets in San José,
where San José State University is still located. The original
building at Washington Square Park was completed in 1872 but
burned down on February 10, 1880. It was replaced by a second
building in 1881, depicted in the lithograph above.

In 1881, the first branch campus was announced in Los Angeles,
which later became the University of California, Los Angeles. In
1887, the California legislature changed the name of the two
normal schools, dropping the word "California" and designating
them simply as "State Normal Schools".
California State Normal School
San Jose
Looking north up Grand St. to the
school's driveway at Fifth and Grand.
Looking west from the 500 block of
Grand, the State Normal School could
be seen on the last knoll of Bunker
Hill as it flattens out to ground level.
The knoll is dubbed Normal Hill. The
vantage-point in the picture is from
the south-east of the school, near
Sixth and Grand.
The eastern face of the Normal School.
The next north-south artery, Hope
Street—like its neighboring streets,
largely residential in the lower
hundreds—would remain interrupted
by this parcel of land, subsequently
used for the central library.
I was having a lot of trouble with this one for a while.
I tried to find it from the signs at first. No luck. So I
tried from the side-by-side bike. No luck. It is hard to
read some of the names on the signs, but I tried this. I
googled < "eureka stables" carl w. peor > and got this
site.
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I love this photo and I looked at the hint.  Using the hint I found William M Osborn on
the LA census in 1880.  He is listed as a stablekeeper, but that is as far as I could get.  I
give up.  I worked on this when you put it up on Sun. and then I forgot about it.  I
remembered tonight but can't get any further.  Oh well.  It isn't often I can do these.
                                                                                      
Milene Rawlinson
*****
Haven't a clue about the location of the picture but I think that's the best contender I've
seen for a patentable unisex chastity belt.                                       
Ronan Fitzpatrick

N.B.  Incorrect.  Big time.  But we'll declare you a winner nevertheless by virtue of
your outstanding imagination.

*****
This photo was taken in Los Angeles (had to peek at the hint after two days, though!),
and I believe that the couple are riding down 5th street.  The building in the background
is the State Normal School (now the site for the Central Library of LA).  I hope I am
right - this one was fun but a toughie!  Had to search old postcards from LA to find
pics of the building and went from there to figure out the street.             
Nicole Blank

*****
okay now: there is what is now Pershing Park on left side of Hill St.; I see it now in
contest photo. What I thought was the court house -- ie famous tower as seen in all the
old LA crime shows is actually city hall. what the answer should be: Los Angeles State
Normal School founded there in 1881 or 1886 and fronted on Grand and Fifth. Grand is
one street over from Hill: two towers and angled roof - one in center and one to the
left.  ta da!                                                                                         
Mike Dalton

*****
Yes, I clicked on the hint, and I had already spent some time looking at the letters
below Eureka Stables beforeI emailed you. I presume you mean the upper one, as
whatever is below the lower one is far too tiny in this image. I even got Laura to look at
it, and she saw what I saw, which seems to be CARL W something, which could be
anything : PEON, FLOR, PEGR, PRUK, etc. The first letter of CARL looks weird for a
C, could be a corrupted S. Tried to make the first word into something they might be
renting, and the W  into a street name, West something, but it's just too small, blurry or
pixelly, and my imagination isn't coming through for me. Still keep looking at the
picture, hoping I'll surprise myself into an insight, but it ain't happened yet. Are you
working with the same resolution image that we get? I'm not accusing you of
skullduggery, I'm just curious.                                                    
        Peter Norton

****
Maybe people thought your hint of LA meant the state not the city. I made that mistake
also at first. Of course you never dreamed that people would make that error, did you. I
thought not.

I didn't know bicycles were ever attached side by side. Makes it more friendly than the
tandem bicycle for two. Does create steering problems though. Also hard to dodge
between streetcars.  

Salutations from beautiful downtown Folsom, CA.                        
Arthur Hartwell Jr.

*****
I am celebrating Canada Day in a cottage at Port Stanley ON located on Lake Erie. Had
limited computer time but think I may have the solution. From the signs I guessed the
name of the Stable – Eureka and the proprietor, W.M.Osb... as William Osborn. Mr.
Osborn was born in New York State in 1835 and came to California in 1855 for the
gold rush. Don’t know if he found any gold but he did settle in Los Angeles where he
started a successful Livery Stable and Saddlery business.

His business was at 323 W. 5th Street. The building at the end of the street looks like
the old courthouse and jail which was at the corner of Broadway and Temple. If this is
so it makes sense that the couple is riding the tandem bike on Broadway and are near
the intersection of Broadway and W. 5th Street. This building was constructed in 1889
and apparently a hurricane destroyed the clock tower and some of the statuary in 1906.
My guess is the photo was taken in the very early 1900’s.
                        Don Draper

*****
Colleen, I have been racking my brain on this one all week. I haven't had a great deal of
time lately to work on any quizs, but my mom sucked me in. I, in turn, sucked my wife
in.

Here is what we think.

1) St Louis. I found out that this Tandem Bike (a Side-by-Side) was Charles Nessom in
St Louis. Makes sense. The Architecture fits, system as well. The buildings behind
them look as if they are on was known as the Mound City. Not sure, but my guess is
that the or taking the picture is Nessom. There are also the clues of Eureka Stables and
various Eureka locations. MO is not too far from STL.

2) This has me stumped. I think the 'LA' clue may come in here, complete area was
part of the Louisiana Purchase, so that may two streets that had street car line on it at
this time (1890's) - La Lafayette Ave) and Lacleide Ave. So those are my guesses.

3) The building in the background has us even more perplexed.that it is one of three,
either it is the Original Anheuser-Busch Brewery could see from La Fayette) or it is
DuBourg Hall, an Administrative campus of St Louis University (built around that time
period), or I'm streets and it is a different angle of Union Station on Market/Laciede

I've been banging my head too long. Put me out of my misery!       
   Blair Chambers

*****
Market Street, San Fransisco Ferry Building. I started by searching for "William
Osbourne Harness Factory" or something quite similar, based on the half sign visible on
the right. That brought me to the interesting page I sent separately. My breakthrough
was when I gave in and guessed San Fran, based on the trolley lines. Turns out there's
a neighborhood called Eureka Valley which is bounded by Market Street on one
side!                                                                                               
Deena Proctor

N.B.  Nope.  - Q. Gen.
Congratulations to Our Winners!

Gary Sterne                Stephen Jolley
Alan Lemm                Don Draper
Nicole Blank                Donna Jolley
Daniel Jolley                Susan Skidmore
Arthur Hartwell                Mike Dalton
Sharon Martin                Debbie Ciccarelli
Robert W. Steinmann Jr.                Jim Baker
Milene Rawlinson
Bookmark and Share
California State Normal School
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Normal_School
Thanks to Sandy McGinnis for allowing us to analyze her photo.
Thanks also to Quizmasters Diane Burkett and Marilyn Hamill
for researching this photo for us when Sandy originally sent it to me last year.
A Visit to Old Los Angeles

Grand Avenue, the State Normal School,
and Bunker Hill Avenue
http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal10.html
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The City and street came pretty quickly when I
searched on "Eureka Stable W.M. Osborn".  That
resulted in a advertisement that had been printed in
Old West Magazine, I think; providing the address
of 323 W. 5t St.

The building was the hard part. Even though the
shadows in the photo are very soft, it appears the
light is stronger from the right side of the picture
so I reasoned we were looking in an easterly
direction.  So I started looking for old maps of
LA, and found one (dated 1909) from the library
of Congress that allows one to navigate and zoom
on very small details; and the map was a 3D
drawing  that identified virtually every building and
business.  I thought,  "my search is over".  All I had to do was navigate up W. 5th St.
until I found the building...which I did.  But for all the names provide by the artist, there
was no identification for the building, but the details were good enough to know I had
the right building.  So I started searching W 5th and Grand, and not finding anything
that clearly answered the question.  I nearly gave up and was ready to guess the LA
Central Library, but I knew that wasn't correct.

So, since the map was dated 1909, I did a search of, w. 5th and Grand LA 1910.  The
picture [above] came up from the University of So. CA archive site.  The text that
came with the picture mentions some of the features, and names the State Normal
School as the building at the dead end.  The picture also calls into question my
assumption about what direction we were looking as the shadows and strong from the
left.  Oh well, whatever works.
Zoomable map site that Steve used in
solving the puzzle.  Check out
memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl
You have a great web site and as I told
my wife, "this is better than a
crossword"...she did not agree.

I look forward to the next one.  Thanks
for your interest.

Stephen Jolley
Esteemed Member
Jolley Clan of Puzzlemasters
**********
Sandy McGiness' Great Grandarents
Charles Henry and Ellen L. Edwards
Charles Henry Edwards, b. 16 Sep 1844 in Warren Co, OH to Quaker
parents Jonathan Edwards and Mary Dakin, d. 25 Jan 1947 in
Pasadena, CA. Married in Princeton, Bureau Co, IL on 13 Dec 1866
to Ellen L. Colver daughter of Jacob Colver and Mary Ann Hoffman.
Ellen b. 27 Dec 1846 place unknown, d. 21 Jan 1913 Pasadena, CA. I
have not been able to verify the date of her death but have family
**********
Answers:

1. Los Angeles (LA)
2. Fifth St. traveling southeast
3.  State Normal School, later part of UCLA
Now the site of the LA Public Library, next door to the Biltmore Hotel
**********
State Normal School
p 134
Ad for Eureka Stables
1901, p 91
Eureka Stables
p n297
Ad for Eureka Stables
1898, p 91
Charles Henry Edward
on his 100th Birthday
photos of sons at a grave covered with
funeral flowers and ribbon saying "Mother"
with a date on the back of Feb 1913.

I have been searching through old photos
and an accumulation of old letters to and
from my grandparents. Just today found
the address of Charles Edwards' home at
2104 Sixth Ave, Los Angeles, CA. He lived
in that home at the time of his 2nd
marriage in 1927 as we have  photos and
also a detailed letter for repairs to the home
in 1949 when it was owned by his 2nd
wife, Florence Edwards. However, I do
not know when the home was purchased.

Finally I found my paternal
great-grandparents on the 1900 census:  
his name
is listed as Henry Edwards, Los Angeles Ward 7, LA, CA as head of
household. Birth date Sept 1844, Ohio, parents both b. in OH and his
age 55. His wife is listed as Ellen L. married in 1868, married 32
years, she 53 years old. Also in the residence in Los Angeles City at
the time of the census were William W. Parker 51 and Amelia J.
Parker 48. The Parker's were the brother & sister-in-law of my
maternal great-grandfather, Samuel Parker. There is a discrepancy in
the date of their marriage as my records (newspaper listing) give Dec
13, 1866 but the other information corresponds with my data. We
were unsure of when Charles and Ella (Ellen) moved to LA but the
census reveals they were living there by 1900.

Family history believed that Charles was the inventor of the bicycle
for two in the photo but that seems to be in question now! Would
appreciate any other info on this social bike. The tandem bike was
invented by Schwin much later.

Sandy McGinnis
The State Normal School c 1885 (right) and c 1900 (left).
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