I need to ask just one double-barreled question.  Is there a date out there for me to find
and have you seen it?  Because if there is not, I will go with my best calculation.  I'm
not going to measure shadows and calculate the rotation of the earth, either.      Not
unless there is a 5-pound box of Trinidads to be won.

Trinidads are wonderful chocolates made by Fannie May and no longer available around
here.  Whatever you offer
should be history or genealogy related or maybe a t-shirt with "I Won The Cathay Cup"
on it.  I will just have to covet it since I can't come up with the date of the photo.  I am
getting quite sick of horses.


You can't find the date on the internet.


Thanks.  Couldn't read the books I wanted to on the internet either.  So off to the
library I guess. I guess I am a little surprised by this, as I thought all your contests
could be won by internet searching.  I know that isn't written down anywhere, but
maybe it should be.


name = Marilyn Hamill
email =
phone = Bonus Photo Entry
comments = 1 Shanghai, Hong Kong, Happy Valley Race Course
2 I can't pin down the exact date, but I found a horse born in 1899, so, with the
fashions, etc, I would say 1901-1903

Shanghai Race Club established in 1862
Hong Kong Jockey Club in 1884
New stands built in 1892
Boxer Rebellion of 1900 - no more Manchurian ponies
Burned down in 1918
New buildings in 1933 in 1880

The book that may contain the answer, China Races by Austin Coates, is not owned by
my library.  I found one person on LibraryThing who has it but they did not answer my
email.  A query on a racing board did not help, either.

Hi  Marilyn,

have seen your analysis of the picture so far, and I am   impressed. The amount of in
depth research that you have done  is  amazing. Obviously you have isolated within a
small  window the date and location.

I'm sure you are going to crack this - so good luck.

Best  wishes

Bonus Photo #1
Extra Hard Bonus Photo #1
August 16, 2009
Suggested by Peter Amsden.
1.  Where was this picture taken?
2.  What was the date it was taken?

The deadline for submission of your answer is Saturday August 29, 2009.
If you have a picture you'd like us to feature a picture in a future quiz, please
email it to us at If we use it, you will receive a free analysis of
your picture. You will also receive a free
Forensic Genealogy CD or a 10%
discount towards the purchase of the
Forensic Genealogy book.
If you enjoy our quizzes, don't forget to order our books!
Three clues 1. men wearing jodhpurs, 2. men with binoculars,. 3. Board saying 'Cathay
Cup' with a list of horses and riders. This is almost certainly a horse racing event.

1. Shanghai
2. 5 May 1903
discovered an article in the China Times dated
Wednesday 6th May 1903 that reported winners of the
race from the day before. Since the names of the
winners are also found in the list of  runners displayed
on the board, we have absolute evidence of the date
and location of this photograph. As additional; research
a map of Shanghai for that period was found showing
the location of the race track within the city.

Peter paved the way for any Quizmasters who had
decided to contact the Hong Kong racetrack.  If you
had written to them, they would already have done a
lookup for Peter, so that they probably still had the
information handy.  As an alternative, you can written
to the Shangahi racetrack to see if they knew anything
about the Cathay Pacific Cup.  They may or may not
How Peter Analyzed the Photo
The time is likely to be Edwardian judging, in particular, by the dress of the lady in the
Where? is rather more difficult.

The board carrying information about the next race says it is for the 'Cathay Cup'.
Since Cathay was the old word for China, is that possible? Well, these people are
Caucasian, implying they are either Europeans or Americans in the Far East. Britain did
have a colony in Hong Kong for a long time and there was a race track there.

Another clue is the banner that is across the tent in the background to the left.
Shanghai Race Club Tent Cash Sweeps
Is there  any way to discover if this race track still exists, and if it does will they still
know about the Cathay Cup? Well, Goggle has nothing relating to the "Cathay Cup", but
quite a lot about the "Cathay Pacific Cup" still run at the Sha Tin Racecourse in Hong

The website of the Cathay Pacific Hong Kong International Races is

In working on the photograph before he suggested it as a puzzle, Peter contacted the
racecourse and told them about the photograph.  They indicated that the race for the
Cathay Pacific Cup is of fairly recent times, supported by the Cathay Pacific airline.
However, they asked if they could see the photograph in question, and Peter duly sent it
to them.

The racetrack reported back that the Cathay Cup was actually run in Shanghai and not
Hong Kong (consistent with the writing on the banner). They researched further and
have answered you.  Peter also tells me that the archives of the China Times are online

(Isn't the internet wonderful?) But I could not find the article giving the race results
from May 5, 1903. But since Diane and Marilyn got this far, much further than any of
the other Quizmasters who attempted the puzzle, we'll declare them winners.
Congratulations to our top Quizmasters Marilyn Hamill and
Diane Burkett who were able to got the location and pretty
close to the date.  Read below our exchanges of emails and their
explanations of how they solved the puzzle.
OK, Colleen, it is a good one.  The present Cathay Cup in horse racing was originally
the Caulfield Cup and was only a 1 mile race (8 furlongs)  in 1883 and 1884, so no
help there.

It appears the lettering on the tent reads Shanghai Race Club Tent - Cash Sweepstakes,
so was likely a betting tent.

Regarding dating the picture, Edward VII did not become King until 1901 and he died
in 1910.  The woman in the foreground appears to be wearing a dress that would have
been fashionable circa 1900-1905, although she is older and might not likely follow the
latest fashion as closely in British colonial outposts. That date coincides with the other
picture I found showing similar track buildings in Hankow and dated circa 1903.

In searching for the race horses, there was a.. an Australian horse named King Edward
sired in 1899 with a likely racing career of seasons 1902-1907, b.. a horse named
Magic bred circa 1895 with a likely racing career of seasons  1898-1903  Still
searching for the jockeys to try to zero in on a date.

Diane Burkett
HIi Diane,

Well I didn't realize this would be so tough.

Try this.  You can't find the answer on the internet, but you can find someone on the
internet who might know the answer.


Hi, Fellow Quizmaster Peter,

As you see from this chain of communication, I have been struggling mightily with the
extra hard photo quiz.  Colleen has suggested that while I won't find the answer on the
internet, I can find someone who knows the answer.

Since you provided the photo, I presume Colleen has steered me to you.So, I am
asking for your help in solving your photo quiz.

I keep being drawn to the woman in the front right of the photo who seems familiar to
me.  I am also perplexed as to why there are so few women in the picture since
raceday was usually a grand social event in British society, a tradition that should have
been carried by the British concessioners to the colonial outposts.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you are willing to provide.  I hate to give up
on it.

Diane R. Burkett

Hi Diane,

The woman in the picture may be very handsome, but her actual identity is
unimportant to this quiz. Seems that those who have tried to solve this one have mostly
homed in on a date in the early 1900's which is correct. You have established that the
location is China and in the early 1900s.

Marilyn's Analysis of the Photo
Diane's Analysis of the Photo