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| Photo courtesy of Bob Moyer. Click on thumbnail to see larger image. |
Note: You can save the picture to your hard drive for closer examination by clicking on the thumbnail,
and then right clicking on the full size image.
and then right clicking on the full size image.
| Answer: 1893, Kodak Pocket Folding Camera No. 4 |
This picture was submitted by Boy Moyer, who explained that the picture was of his
great grandfather Washington Lafayette Gilroy, b. 1824 and d. 1917 in Philadelphia. He
was a long time official with the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Bob comments: "A couple of years ago I sold the antique camera that took the picture.
It was a No. 4 Folding KODAK Camera. I bet this was one of the first pictures the
family took with their "new" camera."
There were quite a few people who understood that the date for this photo was given
by the calendar above Mr. Gilroy's head. Some readers could not clearly read the year
on the calendar, but still understood they could find candidates for the camera from the
web site: http://www.brownie-camera.com/. The camera that took this picture had to
pre-date the Brownie, since the Brownie camera was not placed on the market until
1900. A list of non-Brownie cameras can be found on this site by clicking on the List of
Kodak Cameras (Non-Brownie).
great grandfather Washington Lafayette Gilroy, b. 1824 and d. 1917 in Philadelphia. He
was a long time official with the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Bob comments: "A couple of years ago I sold the antique camera that took the picture.
It was a No. 4 Folding KODAK Camera. I bet this was one of the first pictures the
family took with their "new" camera."
There were quite a few people who understood that the date for this photo was given
by the calendar above Mr. Gilroy's head. Some readers could not clearly read the year
on the calendar, but still understood they could find candidates for the camera from the
web site: http://www.brownie-camera.com/. The camera that took this picture had to
pre-date the Brownie, since the Brownie camera was not placed on the market until
1900. A list of non-Brownie cameras can be found on this site by clicking on the List of
Kodak Cameras (Non-Brownie).
| The calendar reads: Stephen Greene Printing House Blank Book Manufactory 1893 October ????? |
| Helpful Hint: Sometimes the negative of a photo is easier to read than the original (positive) version. |
To remove all doubt about the month and year that are showing, note the following
clues, as pointed out by several readers:
1) The month begins on a Sunday,
2) There are only two more pages on the calendar after the one showing, indicating that
the month is October,
3) The month following the one showing has its last Sunday as the 26th of the month,
3) The second month following the one showing has its fourth Sunday as the 24th of
that month.
There are many perpetual calendars on the internet. Dr. Anthony Smart suggested the
calendar found at http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/ as useful. Leah Mangue
further pointed out "December is the last month on a calendar, you can see here
that the bottom sheet looks rather stiff as if glued to thicker card stock (as is still done
with the last page on many calendars today.) It occurred to me that it might be a little
later in the year because this gentleman is wearing his suit with a vest, warmer weather
might have shown him without the vest."
Many readers went above and beyond the call of duty in researching this photograph.
We had responses on the apparent connection of the publisher to Philadelphia and to the
railroad, comments on the pocket watch worn by the gentleman, indicating his
connection to the railroad, too. We had comments on the furniture, the inkwell, the pen.
Leah Mangue went to the extent of researching the type of light bulb visible in the
picture. Here are some of the interesting responses we received:
About the electric light bulb:
Leah Mangue: "The desk is late 19th century which could easily be in a more recent
picture. But on the top of the desk there is a brass lamp (electric), at that time electric
lamps inside homes were a bit of a luxury. If one did not have the calendar to exact
the date. We might have to rely on other things in the picture, such as the light bulb in
the lamp.
The light bulb seen in the lamp only started to be produced in 1892/3. The time frame
would be from 1892 to 1900. The top of the bulb itself (we see it in the picture as the
bottom) has more of a sloping roundness rather than bulbs made later (those produced
in 1900 +.), which had an ever-so-slightly flatter top (the top of the bulb did not slope
down as much.
http://www.edisonnj.org/menlopark/incandescentlight/pictorial/default3.asp".
clues, as pointed out by several readers:
1) The month begins on a Sunday,
2) There are only two more pages on the calendar after the one showing, indicating that
the month is October,
3) The month following the one showing has its last Sunday as the 26th of the month,
3) The second month following the one showing has its fourth Sunday as the 24th of
that month.
There are many perpetual calendars on the internet. Dr. Anthony Smart suggested the
calendar found at http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/ as useful. Leah Mangue
further pointed out "December is the last month on a calendar, you can see here
that the bottom sheet looks rather stiff as if glued to thicker card stock (as is still done
with the last page on many calendars today.) It occurred to me that it might be a little
later in the year because this gentleman is wearing his suit with a vest, warmer weather
might have shown him without the vest."
Many readers went above and beyond the call of duty in researching this photograph.
We had responses on the apparent connection of the publisher to Philadelphia and to the
railroad, comments on the pocket watch worn by the gentleman, indicating his
connection to the railroad, too. We had comments on the furniture, the inkwell, the pen.
Leah Mangue went to the extent of researching the type of light bulb visible in the
picture. Here are some of the interesting responses we received:
About the electric light bulb:
Leah Mangue: "The desk is late 19th century which could easily be in a more recent
picture. But on the top of the desk there is a brass lamp (electric), at that time electric
lamps inside homes were a bit of a luxury. If one did not have the calendar to exact
the date. We might have to rely on other things in the picture, such as the light bulb in
the lamp.
The light bulb seen in the lamp only started to be produced in 1892/3. The time frame
would be from 1892 to 1900. The top of the bulb itself (we see it in the picture as the
bottom) has more of a sloping roundness rather than bulbs made later (those produced
in 1900 +.), which had an ever-so-slightly flatter top (the top of the bulb did not slope
down as much.
http://www.edisonnj.org/menlopark/incandescentlight/pictorial/default3.asp".
Phil Bolian: "I judge this to be an 1890s era
photograph. Note the electric lamp, and
the incandescent bulb with the early-days
point on it. Both became available in early
1880s in New York. This bulb looks a bit
more advanced than Edison's originals, so
I'll give it to the next decade."
photograph. Note the electric lamp, and
the incandescent bulb with the early-days
point on it. Both became available in early
1880s in New York. This bulb looks a bit
more advanced than Edison's originals, so
I'll give it to the next decade."
About Stephen Greene printing company, the railroad and Philadelphia:
Doyle D. Chastain I: "The Printer, Stephen Greene, was based in Philadelphia. They
still have an 1889 book about The Pennsylvania Railroad Company on the market.
That was interesting too. The outfit, complete with pocket watch, has a train feel to it.
Current redundant safety precautions did not exist for trains then, timing was important
primarily to prevent two trains from being in the same spot at the same time. The
pocket watch became associated with train personnel for a reason..... I also think the
paperwork behind the calendar can lead to some clues. It seems to mention Erie on the
left and ends in ror or nor(?) on the right. There was an Erie Railroad Company in
Pennsylvania where the printer's work was."
Gary Rice: "The calendar is from the Stephen Greene Printing House and blank book
manufactory. There is listed a Stephen Green whose occupation is a printing house in
the 1880 census for Philadelphia, PA. In the 1890 Philadelphia city directory Stephen
Green is listed as a printer at 27 S. 5th. I think this photograph was taken in the
environs of Philadelphia in 1893. It was taken in a business office of some kind about
15 or 20 minutes after noon.
It wasn't taken with flash powder, I think, because the shadows are too diffuse. This
office has an electric light. Philidelphia got it's first electic light in 1880, so 1893 is
not out of line in that regard. In 1893 the months when the first was on a Sunday was
January and October. I think the type of camera used would be a real guess. Kodak
was making the A, B, and C Kodak Daylight camera from 1891 to 1895. From 1890
to early 20th Century, they made various models of the Folding Kodak Camera. In the
early 1890's they made a Glass plate folding Kodak camera. It's clear I'm not too
confident on this picture." (Yeah, right, Gary..I'd hate to see when you were confident.)
Most creative answer:
Kay: "The gentleman was probably the owner of a business and he was a widower. He
wears his wedding ring on his right hand, a sign of widowhood, and he also wears her
wedding ring on the little finger of his left hand. If she had not died, she would have
still been wearing her ring. He is a tired, lonely and sad man wishing he could relive
the days when he and his wife were young and he was working hard to start his
business."
*****************
About the camera:
The web site http://www.brownie-camera.com/kodakcam.shtml indicated there was a
variety of Kodak cameras on the market in 1893. As Gary Rice pointed out, these
included the Kodak Daylight Camera, the Kodak Folding Camera, and the Glass Plate
Kodak Folding Camera. Bob Moyer, the contributor of this photo, comments that until
recently, he owned the camera that took this picture, a No. 4 Kodak Pocket Folding
Camera.
There were Kodak cameras for nonprofessionals that existed prior to the Brownie in
1900 - it's just that they were expensive and not as easy to use. Compare the prices of
these three cameras (in today's dollars) to the price of the Brownie:
Doyle D. Chastain I: "The Printer, Stephen Greene, was based in Philadelphia. They
still have an 1889 book about The Pennsylvania Railroad Company on the market.
That was interesting too. The outfit, complete with pocket watch, has a train feel to it.
Current redundant safety precautions did not exist for trains then, timing was important
primarily to prevent two trains from being in the same spot at the same time. The
pocket watch became associated with train personnel for a reason..... I also think the
paperwork behind the calendar can lead to some clues. It seems to mention Erie on the
left and ends in ror or nor(?) on the right. There was an Erie Railroad Company in
Pennsylvania where the printer's work was."
Gary Rice: "The calendar is from the Stephen Greene Printing House and blank book
manufactory. There is listed a Stephen Green whose occupation is a printing house in
the 1880 census for Philadelphia, PA. In the 1890 Philadelphia city directory Stephen
Green is listed as a printer at 27 S. 5th. I think this photograph was taken in the
environs of Philadelphia in 1893. It was taken in a business office of some kind about
15 or 20 minutes after noon.
It wasn't taken with flash powder, I think, because the shadows are too diffuse. This
office has an electric light. Philidelphia got it's first electic light in 1880, so 1893 is
not out of line in that regard. In 1893 the months when the first was on a Sunday was
January and October. I think the type of camera used would be a real guess. Kodak
was making the A, B, and C Kodak Daylight camera from 1891 to 1895. From 1890
to early 20th Century, they made various models of the Folding Kodak Camera. In the
early 1890's they made a Glass plate folding Kodak camera. It's clear I'm not too
confident on this picture." (Yeah, right, Gary..I'd hate to see when you were confident.)
Most creative answer:
Kay: "The gentleman was probably the owner of a business and he was a widower. He
wears his wedding ring on his right hand, a sign of widowhood, and he also wears her
wedding ring on the little finger of his left hand. If she had not died, she would have
still been wearing her ring. He is a tired, lonely and sad man wishing he could relive
the days when he and his wife were young and he was working hard to start his
business."
*****************
About the camera:
The web site http://www.brownie-camera.com/kodakcam.shtml indicated there was a
variety of Kodak cameras on the market in 1893. As Gary Rice pointed out, these
included the Kodak Daylight Camera, the Kodak Folding Camera, and the Glass Plate
Kodak Folding Camera. Bob Moyer, the contributor of this photo, comments that until
recently, he owned the camera that took this picture, a No. 4 Kodak Pocket Folding
Camera.
There were Kodak cameras for nonprofessionals that existed prior to the Brownie in
1900 - it's just that they were expensive and not as easy to use. Compare the prices of
these three cameras (in today's dollars) to the price of the Brownie:
|
The Brownie of course changed photography forever. When you see a home-based
photo, it is probably from after 1900, but there is still a chance that it was taken before
that. This quiz was meant to give everyone a headsup about that small probability.
P.S. Note that the high price of the No. 4 Kodak Folding Camera ($1020 in today's
dollars) could be making a statement about the pay scale of railroad officials. The
camera could have been owned by the railroad, but to what purpose?
photo, it is probably from after 1900, but there is still a chance that it was taken before
that. This quiz was meant to give everyone a headsup about that small probability.
P.S. Note that the high price of the No. 4 Kodak Folding Camera ($1020 in today's
dollars) could be making a statement about the pay scale of railroad officials. The
camera could have been owned by the railroad, but to what purpose?
| Congratulations to the winners of this quiz: Kathleen Weiland Gwen Pryor Doyle D. Chastain I Gary Rice Leah Mangue Anthony Smart Kay (If you were a winner, but I have omitted your name from our list, it was unintentional. Please let me know.) |
| Click here to return to the present quiz. |
If you have a picture you'd like us to feature a picture in a future quiz, please email it to
us at CFitzp@aol.com. If we use it, you will receive a free analysis of your picture.
You will also receive a free Forensic Genealogy CD or a 10% discount towards the
purchase of the Forensic Genealogy book.
us at CFitzp@aol.com. If we use it, you will receive a free analysis of your picture.
You will also receive a free Forensic Genealogy CD or a 10% discount towards the
purchase of the Forensic Genealogy book.
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| Quiz #14 Answer |
| | | |
| Answer to Quiz #14 - June 24, 2005 What year was this photo taken? What camera was probably used to take it? |